Comments on: A Slacker’s Primer for Law School http://philalawyer.net/2008/09/a-slackers-primer-for-law-school/ Thu, 05 Aug 2010 14:31:16 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: irkle http://philalawyer.net/2008/09/a-slackers-primer-for-law-school/comment-page-1/#comment-3341 irkle Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:55:40 +0000 http://philalawyer.net/?p=328#comment-3341 I finished your book a week or two ago, and funny to say, it did help/encourage me to party and go to work hung over. Where was this book when I was in my last year of college? I'm only 23 (graduated a year ago) and have decided on my "route" without the help of this book, but it sure would have been a nice reinforcement to know this type of thinking was going on. My Dad is a water rights lawyer, he works long hours, and is never ahead. He's always busy. As interested as I might be in this industry, I would never want to commit to that life style, work hard and work hard. Where is the fun? I'd rather work for the city/state and get my pension and have a timeline as to when I can retire. Anyhow, I just wanted to write in and say thanks for keeping me entertained while I'm on the job hunt and trying to figure out what I don't like! I'm writing in from work, and I spend most of my time here looking for other jobs. Your posts/and book make it easier to laugh at the others racing around in the scuffle and I guess I'm just lazy! PL: You're welcome. And tell your old man to never forget what Vonnegut said: "We were put on this earth to fart around, and never let anyone tell you any different." I finished your book a week or two ago, and funny to say, it did help/encourage me to party and go to work hung over. Where was this book when I was in my last year of college? I’m only 23 (graduated a year ago) and have decided on my “route” without the help of this book, but it sure would have been a nice reinforcement to know this type of thinking was going on.

My Dad is a water rights lawyer, he works long hours, and is never ahead. He’s always busy. As interested as I might be in this industry, I would never want to commit to that life style, work hard and work hard. Where is the fun? I’d rather work for the city/state and get my pension and have a timeline as to when I can retire.

Anyhow, I just wanted to write in and say thanks for keeping me entertained while I’m on the job hunt and trying to figure out what I don’t like! I’m writing in from work, and I spend most of my time here looking for other jobs. Your posts/and book make it easier to laugh at the others racing around in the scuffle and I guess I’m just lazy!

PL: You’re welcome. And tell your old man to never forget what Vonnegut said: “We were put on this earth to fart around, and never let anyone tell you any different.”

]]> By: brad http://philalawyer.net/2008/09/a-slackers-primer-for-law-school/comment-page-1/#comment-1488 brad Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:45:49 +0000 http://philalawyer.net/?p=328#comment-1488 Don't law schools check up on what clubs you were in and what not? Or am I being naive? If say, they did check and you were caught lying on your application, would they tell other schools and "blacklist" you? Thanks. PL: Respectfully, I think you're missing a bit of the thrust here. But in the spirit of trying to answer, I don't know on the first, and I doubt it on the second. Don’t law schools check up on what clubs you were in and what not? Or am I being naive? If say, they did check and you were caught lying on your application, would they tell other schools and “blacklist” you? Thanks.
PL: Respectfully, I think you’re missing a bit of the thrust here. But in the spirit of trying to answer, I don’t know on the first, and I doubt it on the second.

]]> By: notsojadedlawstudent http://philalawyer.net/2008/09/a-slackers-primer-for-law-school/comment-page-1/#comment-1487 notsojadedlawstudent Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:47:15 +0000 http://philalawyer.net/?p=328#comment-1487 Oh, and PL, have you heard of Doug Litowitz? He wrote a book called "Beyond One L: The Destruction of Young Lawyers". It's good stuff, though not widely received, I gather. You guys should team up and jointly spread the word. PL: Thanks, but I think I'm heading back toward more straight comedy stuff/journalism/social critiques. I'm all but through with law. If I got into critiquing the field for a living I'd wind up debating with the biggest crowd of annoying tools on the planet. Better to laugh at them. Oh, and PL, have you heard of Doug Litowitz? He wrote a book called “Beyond One L: The Destruction of Young Lawyers”. It’s good stuff, though not widely received, I gather.
You guys should team up and jointly spread the word.
PL: Thanks, but I think I’m heading back toward more straight comedy stuff/journalism/social critiques. I’m all but through with law. If I got into critiquing the field for a living I’d wind up debating with the biggest crowd of annoying tools on the planet. Better to laugh at them.

]]> By: notsojadedlawstudent http://philalawyer.net/2008/09/a-slackers-primer-for-law-school/comment-page-1/#comment-1486 notsojadedlawstudent Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:50:50 +0000 http://philalawyer.net/?p=328#comment-1486 Hey PL, Love your stuff, but I'm curious what you make of my situation: Let me preface by saying that I agree wholeheartedly with almost your entire assessment of the legal academy and profession. In fact, I used to "run" the pre-law organization at my undergrad (purely resume puffery - we had like 30 members). This was a state school and most of the members were in line to get rejected across the board, or end up at some terrible, low-ranked school out of which they'd never be anything more than a glorified paralegal. These poor souls had no business even passively considering law school. The best I thought I could do was tell them, without ever saying it, not to go. I gave presentations, wrote articles, referred them to your site, etc. I don't know whether it stuck or not, but by the time my tenure was over I was considered the biggest, most pompous SOB to ever chair that organization. I still went to law school myself, for many of the reasons that lead most of us there - no relevant skills in other disciplines, worthless undergrad degree, etc., etc. But for some bizarre and undetectable reason I've managed to avoid the angry backlash. I see the malaise setting in with my classmates every day, yet I feel fine. I go to a very top school, get good grades, study much less than the 90% or so of the class beneath me, and am just as debauched as you, my friend (coke benders, wicked sweats and shakes in class - no need to remind you I'm sure). My question to you is, am I insane? To an extent I enjoy the mental masturbation that is learning the law. I've just always loved words. On some level you must have experienced at least a little enjoyment in reading some of the more snippy opinions in law school. You're a great writer, even if you loathe legal practice you must appreciate reading some of those arguments, no? Even with that said, I skip a ton of class, get just as fucked up as I did in college, and if my ranking doesn't suddenly tank I'll be on track for a coveted federal clerkship and probably segway into academia afterwards. I must sound like one of those "kids in his early twenties who knows exactly what he wants to do with his life," who one "wouldn't want to have a drink with." Maybe I am, but I'll tell you that the top ranked kids think it's some sort of vicious joke that the profs think my work is as "good" as theirs. And for those who don't know my GPA, they probably think I'm at the very bottom of the class. I don't wear blazers or horn-rimmed glasses, and I certainly don't pun in Greek. I spend exponentially more time in the bar than the library, and as much as reading law when necessary is tolerable to me, I don't give a shit what that 23 year old acne-clad virgin has to say about penumbras and emanations when he corners me at power hour on Friday night. Point being, I also came here primarily for a lack of other options. And I can sorta see why it ruins so many good people. I just have no idea why I've been such a strange exception. No one should come to law school thinking my case will be theirs. It won't. This shouldn't be happening to me, even. The only thing I can foresee fucking me is my lifestyle. If and when people who "matter" see me twitching like a crack-whore on some Tuesday morning, things might take an ugly turn. How did you conceal (if you did) your recreational activities from your higher-ups? Or was it just not apparent with you? PL: Hell, no. You're not insane. You're lucky. I think your skill and ability coupled with the ability to see through people will serve you well. Just remember, that seeing through people thing can be as much a blessing as a curse. One can easily find himself analyzing ways to fire half the people around him and streamline all the processes in what is an intentionally inefficient profession. Once you start thinking about it as an acting gig more than a real job where you do anything important, you can get awfully jaded. But in fairness to law, outside some medical practices and some entrepreneurial endeavors, that's basically the description of any corporate job. I concealed my lifestyle by being openly sarcastic. People assumed I had a dark sense of humor. And the fact is, I think most of the people I worked with loathed the career as well, so my attitude didn't stand out much. When I needed to, however, say around clients or in court or around partners who didn't share that gallows humor openly, I could be pretty chipper. The best trick is to deflect disgust and boredom with the annoyance of the job toward an opponent. Instead of railing against the job around the office, let an opponent act as a proxy and profess irritation with him in place of the job. This transference makes managers think you're really into the job while allowing you to openly vent. It's kind of fun. You can be thinking, "God, I'm so fucking bored with this shit work" while talking to a partner, but what's coming out of your mouth is "God, I fucking hate (insert opponent)... He's such an impossible dick." A little self-preservation trick to keep you sane. Hey PL,
Love your stuff, but I’m curious what you make of my situation:
Let me preface by saying that I agree wholeheartedly with almost your entire assessment of the legal academy and profession. In fact, I used to “run” the pre-law organization at my undergrad (purely resume puffery – we had like 30 members). This was a state school and most of the members were in line to get rejected across the board, or end up at some terrible, low-ranked school out of which they’d never be anything more than a glorified paralegal. These poor souls had no business even passively considering law school. The best I thought I could do was tell them, without ever saying it, not to go. I gave presentations, wrote articles, referred them to your site, etc. I don’t know whether it stuck or not, but by the time my tenure was over I was considered the biggest, most pompous SOB to ever chair that organization.
I still went to law school myself, for many of the reasons that lead most of us there – no relevant skills in other disciplines, worthless undergrad degree, etc., etc. But for some bizarre and undetectable reason I’ve managed to avoid the angry backlash.
I see the malaise setting in with my classmates every day, yet I feel fine. I go to a very top school, get good grades, study much less than the 90% or so of the class beneath me, and am just as debauched as you, my friend (coke benders, wicked sweats and shakes in class – no need to remind you I’m sure).
My question to you is, am I insane? To an extent I enjoy the mental masturbation that is learning the law. I’ve just always loved words. On some level you must have experienced at least a little enjoyment in reading some of the more snippy opinions in law school. You’re a great writer, even if you loathe legal practice you must appreciate reading some of those arguments, no?
Even with that said, I skip a ton of class, get just as fucked up as I did in college, and if my ranking doesn’t suddenly tank I’ll be on track for a coveted federal clerkship and probably segway into academia afterwards.
I must sound like one of those “kids in his early twenties who knows exactly what he wants to do with his life,” who one “wouldn’t want to have a drink with.” Maybe I am, but I’ll tell you that the top ranked kids think it’s some sort of vicious joke that the profs think my work is as “good” as theirs. And for those who don’t know my GPA, they probably think I’m at the very bottom of the class. I don’t wear blazers or horn-rimmed glasses, and I certainly don’t pun in Greek. I spend exponentially more time in the bar than the library, and as much as reading law when necessary is tolerable to me, I don’t give a shit what that 23 year old acne-clad virgin has to say about penumbras and emanations when he corners me at power hour on Friday night.
Point being, I also came here primarily for a lack of other options. And I can sorta see why it ruins so many good people. I just have no idea why I’ve been such a strange exception.
No one should come to law school thinking my case will be theirs. It won’t. This shouldn’t be happening to me, even.
The only thing I can foresee fucking me is my lifestyle. If and when people who “matter” see me twitching like a crack-whore on some Tuesday morning, things might take an ugly turn.
How did you conceal (if you did) your recreational activities from your higher-ups? Or was it just not apparent with you?
PL: Hell, no. You’re not insane. You’re lucky. I think your skill and ability coupled with the ability to see through people will serve you well. Just remember, that seeing through people thing can be as much a blessing as a curse. One can easily find himself analyzing ways to fire half the people around him and streamline all the processes in what is an intentionally inefficient profession. Once you start thinking about it as an acting gig more than a real job where you do anything important, you can get awfully jaded. But in fairness to law, outside some medical practices and some entrepreneurial endeavors, that’s basically the description of any corporate job.
I concealed my lifestyle by being openly sarcastic. People assumed I had a dark sense of humor. And the fact is, I think most of the people I worked with loathed the career as well, so my attitude didn’t stand out much. When I needed to, however, say around clients or in court or around partners who didn’t share that gallows humor openly, I could be pretty chipper. The best trick is to deflect disgust and boredom with the annoyance of the job toward an opponent. Instead of railing against the job around the office, let an opponent act as a proxy and profess irritation with him in place of the job. This transference makes managers think you’re really into the job while allowing you to openly vent. It’s kind of fun. You can be thinking, “God, I’m so fucking bored with this shit work” while talking to a partner, but what’s coming out of your mouth is “God, I fucking hate (insert opponent)… He’s such an impossible dick.” A little self-preservation trick to keep you sane.

]]> By: Cody Jordan http://philalawyer.net/2008/09/a-slackers-primer-for-law-school/comment-page-1/#comment-1485 Cody Jordan Wed, 12 Nov 2008 06:29:38 +0000 http://philalawyer.net/?p=328#comment-1485 Your post, and the advice from others, gave me more insight than any pre-law advisor was able to provide in 3 years. I don't want to graduate because I still have no idea what I want to do with my life. I have decent grades, but part of me just wants to dick around for awhile. Tend bar. Take cooking classes. Travel places. Have sex with many women. Would I be making a mistake if, after obtaining my degree, I get this out of my system? And perhaps after, doing nothing that has to do with my degree? Maybe save some money and open up a bar to take advantage of the hoards of young alcoholic lawyers unsatisfied with how they spent their time and money? Sorry if that last part seemed smug. My life right now looks like an epic failure. PL: You're life's not a failure. That's just ridiculous. If you don't want to stay in career tied to your major, start looking for something else to do, asap. When you get out, shoot for it, and never let anyone tell you to do anything else. Just remember - keep your expectations sensible. You know your limits. Observe them. Nobody should run off and say, "I'm going to be a movie star!" or "I'm going to be CEO and make seven figures by 30!" You sound realistic. You'll be fine. Best of luck with whatever it turns out to be. Your post, and the advice from others, gave me more insight than any pre-law advisor was able to provide in 3 years.
I don’t want to graduate because I still have no idea what I want to do with my life. I have decent grades, but part of me just wants to dick around for awhile. Tend bar. Take cooking classes. Travel places. Have sex with many women.
Would I be making a mistake if, after obtaining my degree, I get this out of my system?
And perhaps after, doing nothing that has to do with my degree? Maybe save some money and open up a bar to take advantage of the hoards of young alcoholic lawyers unsatisfied with how they spent their time and money?
Sorry if that last part seemed smug. My life right now looks like an epic failure.
PL: You’re life’s not a failure. That’s just ridiculous.
If you don’t want to stay in career tied to your major, start looking for something else to do, asap. When you get out, shoot for it, and never let anyone tell you to do anything else.
Just remember – keep your expectations sensible. You know your limits. Observe them. Nobody should run off and say, “I’m going to be a movie star!” or “I’m going to be CEO and make seven figures by 30!”
You sound realistic. You’ll be fine. Best of luck with whatever it turns out to be.

]]> By: Timmy C http://philalawyer.net/2008/09/a-slackers-primer-for-law-school/comment-page-1/#comment-1484 Timmy C Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:32:05 +0000 http://philalawyer.net/?p=328#comment-1484 PL, I couldn't resist posting this the second I finished reading: http://www.cnbc.com/id/26841403 By the way, I went to the B&N on Rittenhouse and they didn't have a copy yesterday. Better get on that shit! However, Borders did come through for me. Looking forward to reading some of the stories that were not posted online. PL: It's meant to be read straight through. Jump in and out and you might miss the connectors. As to B&N, all I can say is, this is what you get when bricks and mortar retailers try to beat 150% performance out of 2/3 the employees they need. Welcome to the new economy. Big corporations filled with exhausted workers half-assing everything and shit-scared of deviating from order for fear of being fired. A consumer Idiocracy in the making. You want to fit in over the next 20 years? Start huffing laughing gas every morning before you leave the house. You'll want to be operating around a 10 year old's mentality, just to fit in. "Brawndo! It's got electrolytes!!!!" PL, I couldn’t resist posting this the second I finished reading: http://www.cnbc.com/id/26841403
By the way, I went to the B&N on Rittenhouse and they didn’t have a copy yesterday. Better get on that shit! However, Borders did come through for me.
Looking forward to reading some of the stories that were not posted online.
PL: It’s meant to be read straight through. Jump in and out and you might miss the connectors.
As to B&N, all I can say is, this is what you get when bricks and mortar retailers try to beat 150% performance out of 2/3 the employees they need. Welcome to the new economy. Big corporations filled with exhausted workers half-assing everything and shit-scared of deviating from order for fear of being fired. A consumer Idiocracy in the making.
You want to fit in over the next 20 years? Start huffing laughing gas every morning before you leave the house. You’ll want to be operating around a 10 year old’s mentality, just to fit in.
“Brawndo! It’s got electrolytes!!!!”

]]> By: MedicalMatt http://philalawyer.net/2008/09/a-slackers-primer-for-law-school/comment-page-1/#comment-1483 MedicalMatt Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:40:16 +0000 http://philalawyer.net/?p=328#comment-1483 To the law school hopefuls... Guys, PL and the others who added to his line of thought here all knew this before they did law school and they did it anyway. Do you think someone bright is going commit to those arduous years on a whim? Right, so let that speak for itself. PL: Do you think bright people are incapable of bad decisions? Exhibit A in my rebuttal: Wall Street. Do you think bright people can't feel they have no options and consequently take a gamble on a graduate degree only to find out it wasn't a good play later? Do you think "bright" holds a 1:1 ratio in regard to "excellent decision making capability"? How many different varieties of bright do you think exist in the world? A research scientist is brighter than me. Would he best me in an argument? Are you suggesting my ability to write is proof that I am too smart to have made a poor decision about law school? If so, thank you. Or are you planning on attending law school and uncomfortable being challenged on the decision? The only advice on law school offered here to anyone with the capacity to understand satire is "think for yourself." Is that a rebuttable argument? To the law school hopefuls… Guys, PL and the others who added to his line of thought here all knew this before they did law school and they did it anyway. Do you think someone bright is going commit to those arduous years on a whim? Right, so let that speak for itself.
PL: Do you think bright people are incapable of bad decisions? Exhibit A in my rebuttal: Wall Street.
Do you think bright people can’t feel they have no options and consequently take a gamble on a graduate degree only to find out it wasn’t a good play later?
Do you think “bright” holds a 1:1 ratio in regard to “excellent decision making capability”?
How many different varieties of bright do you think exist in the world? A research scientist is brighter than me. Would he best me in an argument? Are you suggesting my ability to write is proof that I am too smart to have made a poor decision about law school? If so, thank you.
Or are you planning on attending law school and uncomfortable being challenged on the decision?
The only advice on law school offered here to anyone with the capacity to understand satire is “think for yourself.” Is that a rebuttable argument?

]]> By: MoreCowbell http://philalawyer.net/2008/09/a-slackers-primer-for-law-school/comment-page-1/#comment-1482 MoreCowbell Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:47:36 +0000 http://philalawyer.net/?p=328#comment-1482 PL, yes, D is the answer. I actually enjoy that sort of problem. Maybe that's a symptom of some medical condition. At least I have 2 years to think before making that mistake. PL: People will tell you with the economy faltering (and yes, this will be a long slump) now is the time to run to a place like law school. These are the sorts who tend to be wrong a lot, but they'll never be more wrong than they are with that advice. Every uncreative soul will run to the paths of least resistance. In a market so saturated the dropping value of the skill is only going to accelerate. I don't know where the next bubble will be, but it will emerge in the next two years (or at least hints of what it will be). Keep your eyes open for it and do everything you can to get in early. And if you're lucky enough to get in early, remember not to be a pig. make what you need and never believe you're in "a new paradigm." It won't be true. PL, yes, D is the answer.
I actually enjoy that sort of problem. Maybe that’s a symptom of some medical condition.
At least I have 2 years to think before making that mistake.
PL: People will tell you with the economy faltering (and yes, this will be a long slump) now is the time to run to a place like law school. These are the sorts who tend to be wrong a lot, but they’ll never be more wrong than they are with that advice. Every uncreative soul will run to the paths of least resistance. In a market so saturated the dropping value of the skill is only going to accelerate.
I don’t know where the next bubble will be, but it will emerge in the next two years (or at least hints of what it will be). Keep your eyes open for it and do everything you can to get in early. And if you’re lucky enough to get in early, remember not to be a pig. make what you need and never believe you’re in “a new paradigm.” It won’t be true.

]]> By: Sam http://philalawyer.net/2008/09/a-slackers-primer-for-law-school/comment-page-1/#comment-1481 Sam Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:55:01 +0000 http://philalawyer.net/?p=328#comment-1481 Who is your literary agent? What agency? I assume they are out of NYC, correct? PL: Byrd Leavell, www.Waxmanagency.com Who is your literary agent? What agency? I assume they are out of NYC, correct?
PL: Byrd Leavell, http://www.Waxmanagency.com

]]> By: UTLaw http://philalawyer.net/2008/09/a-slackers-primer-for-law-school/comment-page-1/#comment-1480 UTLaw Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:41:20 +0000 http://philalawyer.net/?p=328#comment-1480 Re: FrattyLite I'm a 2L at the University of Tennessee, and the employment rate is much, much higher than what you stated (figures between 85-95%). We're also working hard to break the top 50 (currently 53) and I really think we can do it with our new dean. Alot has changed since 2000 ; ) PL: Calculate the average starting salary removing the top five percent of the class. Take that number (A) and subtract from it the average graduate's yearly student loan repayment cost (B). Take the resulting number (C) and divide that by 2200. Walking out the door after graduation, that's the average value of the degree on a dollar per hour basis. Re: FrattyLite
I’m a 2L at the University of Tennessee, and the employment rate is much, much higher than what you stated (figures between 85-95%). We’re also working hard to break the top 50 (currently 53) and I really think we can do it with our new dean. Alot has changed since 2000 ; )
PL: Calculate the average starting salary removing the top five percent of the class.
Take that number (A) and subtract from it the average graduate’s yearly student loan repayment cost (B).
Take the resulting number (C) and divide that by 2200. Walking out the door after graduation, that’s the average value of the degree on a dollar per hour basis.

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