Comments on: What It’s Like Graduating into One of the Nastiest Job Markets in History (And Why It Might be an Opportunity in Disguise)

By: Chuck

Chuck — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:22:04 +0000

So I just graduated law school and am jobless. I’m using the recession as an excuse to do whatever I want, so I’m probably going to move to California and take whatever job wherever in order to finance it (after four years at Syracuse and three in NYC I can’t take another northeast winter).
It’s probably been said here numerous times before, but this generation is going to have to revise individual goals in order to be happy. A few generations ago acheiving a middle class income and lifestyle, and being happy, were not mutually exclusive. Somewhow the expectations got all out of whack, and everyone my age believes that, in order to be happy, special and significant things must happen in your life, and that your life must have an impact on the world in a significant way. Not to say that such aspriations aren’t something to strive for, and if these things happen, that’s great. I’m not advocating shooting for the middle. I’m just saying that for the average 25 year old, without a family of his or her own, it might be a good time/idea to make a list of the things that make you happy. I can almost guarantee that this list will not have anything on it that costs very much money. So, time to re-prioritze. Maybe careerism for its own sake is not a fantastic idea if you don’t want to suffer from depression at 35. Even baby-boomers took some years to find themselves before becoming career/family oriented; how is it that everyone my age decided to skip this part? We stay in school forever and worry tremendously over where we are in relationship to everyone else (even hipsters do this). And we buy dogs that we dote over in lieu of children. Maybe just relax a bit, no?
Everybody is concerned about what their options are without realizing that they’re virtually limitless if you just re-adjust your goals and stop worrying about whether you can retire by 50 (you can’t). Doing nothing, and for that matter, being a law student and contributing nothing, is boring NOW. I can’t imagine how boring it would be with a 50 year old body.
PL: I’m not adding shit to this except, Thanks. Well put.

By: Brian

Brian — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 02:59:02 +0000

@Mike: I’ve been abstaining from commenting, because I graduated and have it really good, actually, and no one wants to hear that. But I’m happy because I made my own luck, followed my gut, and most importantly, stayed the fuck away from public accounting. Seriously…it is a worthless business model where you’re treated like shit for no good reason. Do yourself a favor and get an internship where you actually learn something. Then, when you have proven skills, you are actually in a position to negotiate your salary. And don’t let anyone tell you differently: you can always negotiate, unless there is an ample supply of idiots giving it away for free. Then you just differentiate yourself, and prove why you’re worth more. But seriously: fuck public accounting…it’s just a low-rent version of corporate law.

By: Marty

Marty — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:42:48 +0000

I watched Into the Wild last night and these were my thoughts throughout the entire movie: Wow, I’m going to do this. I’m going to travel and see the world. I want to go to Alaska. Look how beautiful it is. He’s so effing brave. Oh my God I’m doing something like this right after I graduate.
Then the dude died in the most depressing, lonely way.
I still want to see the world. I still want to somehow lead an interesting life and veer away from Corporate America. But I don’t want to die alone and starving, either.
I guess that might be the tradeoff in some cases though. A harsh reality.
PL: No, not at all. There’s a middle road, and unless you fuck it up, your generation is going to carve it. This Great Recession thing? It’s a long term correction, or contraction. Things aren’t going to snap back quickly because we’ve promised too much to too many and there’s no new bubble happening here that’s going to come anywhere close to funding us out of it, at least not as far as I can see for the next five or more years. We’re coming off a jobless recovery under Bush, so the real unemployed/underemployed numbers are probably five points higher than DC says.
I don’t offer this to scare, but to empower. Even before this mess, people were saying they’d had enough of the old system. We’ve had wonderful technological advances that make the old employee-at-the-office structure seem an unnecessary expense. Who needs all that overhead? By hiring independent contractors, employers can compete. They can shed health care costs, expensive leases, etc. It was moving in that direction before and there’s no reason the process shouldn’t accelerate now. Perhaps your generation can be the first to shift us from a more traditional model to a more contractor based model. If you have that, you’ll have freedom. You can finish a project and instead of having to beg for two weeks vacation to see New Zealand from your boss or the dipshit in human resources who staggers people’s vacation schedules, you can Just Go.
Sure, it’ll never be comfortable, but from a guy who worked for other people for a decade, whether you’re an employee or a 1099′d contractor makes no difference in terms of comfort. Nobody’s going to feel safe for a long time, and nor should they. Innovation isn’t born in a sunny meadow. It’s created when people are put under the gun and forced to develop ways to do things more effectively. Your generation is never going to have the job security mine did, just like mine didn’t have the security of those before me. But this mess is a gift in terms of life balance. You guys might enjoy a balance few did before, and I happen to think that if you do work as contractors and you get more time to yourself – to travel, to read, to not be harried in this stupid, stultifying 9-5 horseshit we’ve call the “American Dream” – you’ll be more well rounded and our economy will benefit from your improved insights. Maybe that’s naive, but if everybody gets to indulge an “I have dream” moment here and there, that’d be one of mine.
That and being in a threesome with Brigit Bardot in her prime and Adrianna Lima.

By: peravostes

peravostes — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:58:19 +0000

I am currently supposed to be in the thick of this topic as well, as I’ll be graduating in December. I appreciate this post and all the comments, but you know what…
Who cares about all this economy horseshit?
There’s always going to be some crisis or some other bullshit for idiots to worry about — it makes $$$ for the TV networks who show “news” about it 24 hours a day. If you are waiting for the world to be perfect to start your life, you are gonna be waiting a long damn time. I got news for you, if you are reading this you are living life right here, right now.
Remember that show “Frontier House” on PBS or something, where they take a modern day family and make them live like old-timey frontier people? Now THOSE motherfuckers back then had it hard: If the food you planted didn’t grow, you and your family starved to death! Now THAT’S a crisis. As far as I can tell, no one in the United States today is starving to death (yet!).
So if you wanna live a life you love, go for it RIGHT NOW. Despite the economy, whether good or bad. NO ONE is standing in your way of doing WHAT IT TAKES except for worries and fears. Are you gonna do it when you are 70 and on dialysis? Hell, you may not even make it that far, you could die anytime from something stupid and unexpected.
So you got an education in a worthless major? Boohoo for you. Deal with it. Everyone fucks up, so learn from your mistakes, fix them and move on, or else add them to your pile of worries and excuses for not living the life you want.
PL: Most people can’t just up and do what you suggest. In a lot of ways, nobody’s ever really free because there’s that pesky paying your bills thing. Technically, your option is open, but most people have to go “off the grid” to do what they really want to do. Not sure many want to go that far.

By: J

Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:33:38 +0000

Great article. Your input (from comments) about what a waste of space HR really nailed the reasons why so many things are the way they are right now:
Kind of an offshoot of my old post and I was hoping you could clear some things up for me: http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/showthread.php?p=846888#post846888
Call me a naive college kid still, but I actually think its possible to find a way to get people to do education+careers with all their heart and I want to make finding this “what I want to do with my life”. It’s become normal to complain about school+your job but I don’t think it has to be this way. I think of it like this: our satisfaction from these 2 parts which consume a big portion of life is a work in progress-kind of like how eating, travel, and reading probably wasn’t as enjoyable when we were cavemen compared to today.
My options as I see them? Work as a research assistant for various think tanks, esp those in education. Yeah, I’ll probably wind up just like Jeremy in constitutional law where they won’t let me work on any of the issues of my own but at least it will make me a better candidate for Grad school-which is pretty the absolute minimum for anyone to take you seriously in this field.
That is further down the line though-because I still have to pass by recruiters that know jack shit about what a suitable candidate for a technical position is or how well a person fits with the corporate culture that they didn’t even help build(yet represent the company to me as a jobseeker) because they came from a staffing agency. How the fuck is a recruiter that used to work in IT supposed to know anything about recruiting teachers? HR/Management functions should be a skill that is grown throughout one’s time with a company and not something like accounting where you can freely transfer from one to another. I think you’ll find it interesting to note that companys like boeing/northrop do HR as more of a promotion from within.
Any advice on how to get past the “resume black hole”(where I’ve emailed HR but don’t hear a response from them)?”Don’t call us, we’ll let you know”. Sigh. More time spent justifying their existence than doing their “job”.
PL: You have to get connected to someone above the HR monkey. That’s the only way, and the bigger the corporation the more automatic and less thinking the process. You want to come in from a posture above that bureaucrat, with the bureaucrat understanding that someone of actual importance to the company deems you a candidate to be evaluated outside the usual mindless processes. It’s hard, but the only way to get ahead is milking connections. Who you know is worth ten times what you know. There is no such thing as a pure meritocracy. People work with people they like, or at least people they respect. I know it’s hard at an early stage to get connected, but it’s the only way. Work like a private investigator if you have to. Connect the six degrees between everybody and locate the college acquaintance whose uncle is in upper management at the organization and contact him for help. And don’t be afraid to ask or be a bit pushy. It feels tawdry to seek out favors, but that’s how business works. Talent’s cheap; it’s all relationships.

By: Alex

Alex — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:51:50 +0000

As a recent grad who ditched the traditional Grad School or Banking mentality to join Teach for America in New Orleans this article hits home. Most people laugh at the fact that I went to a “prestigious” school and came out a public school teacher, but fuck them. The work has already been the most challenging and rewarding I have experienced. I have no clue what I’m doing after my 2 years, but I do know it’s going to involve surrounding myself with people who value people who create their own paths. I hope this economic mess creates more of them. Keep up the good work.
PL: I think a lot of people are going to have no choice but to carve their own non-traditional paths. Like I said, until unemployment and underemployment turn, we’re going to be in a period of malaise. You’ll hear people run off at the mouth about how consumer spending is not as important as assumed. To borrow from Tracy Morgan, That’s crazy talk. Yeah, the financial sector can focus abroad and decouple the market from the domestic troubles, but the underlying issues that will vex young workers who haven’t yet established a skill-set – an overall lack of worthwhile employment opportunities – remain. Those will drag down corporate America and depress any expected uptick in hiring.
Hence, we need another bubble. Somebody, please, cure cancer. Or invent a cell phone that gives blow jobs.

By: subrogated self

subrogated self — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:25:51 +0000

Phily, speaking of Allmans, one thing to add. In one of your epic stories, you had a line about seeing Allmans at Redrocks. Well, September 5 they will be there and so will I, 2000 miles from home for 3-day weekend of Allmans and Rockies mountain biking. Thanks for the inspiration.
PL: Great minds think alike… That line was almost clipped from the book, but my editor here at the time, Donika, said it was a favorite of hers.
Hopefully, you’ll see a “You Don’t Love Me/Soul Serenade” and hopefully, Warren will have the good sense to leave Derek to take over the solo. Nothing against Warren (I love Mule), but Warren does not fit in well with the Allmans, in my opinion. He makes the sound too aggressive and he uses too much distortion.
Dickey needs to start playing with them again. He’s as much part of the genius that made that band what it is as any of the original members.

By: A

Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:34:28 +0000

Thank you for telling the truth. I live in Calgary, and everything revolves around the oil industry. I grew up with 2 geologists as parents, and all of my friends had parents who were either engineers, geologists or consultants. I am 19 and went to one year of university because as soon as you graduate high school it is expected you go to school and get the same mundane job as your parents so you can have that cabin on the lake where you only spend 2 weeks out of the year, and the BMW that everyone on your street drives as well. Because of your vision I finally have the courage to do what I want, I am going to audio engineering school. Although my mom took away her support I will figure things out because for the first time I am motivated by passion, not by pressure. It’s scary and most of my university friends think its dumb but I am excited to see where it takes me.
PL: Thank you for the compliment, and best of luck to you on the career. I’m frankly kind of shocked your folks would react that way. Mine don’t understand me, but they’ve more than supported me over the years. My mother, in fact, pushed me every time she saw me – accused me of not having the guts to get out of my career. And my father understood. Wasn’t keen on it, but he understood. Shit, everyone understands if they just take the time to think about it. Hate to sound repetitive, but life isn’t meant to be spent going through the exact same routine every single day and feeling like you’re a slave to the whims of some dickhead who sits above you in a hierarchy by dint of nothing more than the fact he happened to have been born a decade before you. I don’t think I’m some special talent who needed to break out and share a “gift” with anyone. I don’t think anybody who feels trapped in an office is that arrogant. We just know there has to be more to it than what we’re doing there, cranking out mindless busywork behind a desk for someone else.
By the way, I’ve been thinking about audio engineering a good bit lately. I’ve a short in the truck’s audio system (this complex thing with twelve different speakers I’d have never gotten if I’d had the choice) nobody seems to be able to locate. Absolutely maddening, and the quest to locate it is ungodly expensive. I’ll be screwing along on the highway, cranking a live Allmans disc and – POP – the fucker just cuts out. Then I have to turn it on and off twice to get it on again and by the time I do that Duane’s already fifteen notes ahead in a solo.
Oh, and as to those German cars, all they are is headaches. Fun to drive fast and all, but absolute shit in snow, and a goddamn fortune to have serviced. In fairness, however, I will say that those folks do make a bulletproof engine. On balance, however, the Japanese stuff puts their product to shame. You can get 200k out of most Japanese cars with 1/3 the service costs of the German ones. You’re missing nothing if you skip out on keeping up with the Joneses on your block in that regard. I view my purchase in that arena as a waste of a pile of bonus money better spent on anything – Vegas, a large screen TV… a pile of GM stock. Well, maybe not that last one.

By: subrogated self

subrogated self — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:03:23 +0000

Thanks for fascinating interviews and insights. Must confess being the same age as Philly, I have often written these new kids off as fucked up coddled babies who simply don’t want to work. But perhaps this view is just the selfish baby boomer envy that has seeped into my mind-view also.
As Philly says, the law firm business, i.e., racket, is about done. Greed killed it and is still killing what’s left of it (Philly, if you can believe it, it has gotten even worse with the downturn, it is like some mutant darwinism out there!). I have billed 5 hours this week and I am a regulatory lawyer, so much for cover. But know what, I am not worried in the least, unlikely I get canned and if I do, I sold my overpriced house and can get by for a year on what has not been rolled into the new one. Part of this lack of worry is a partial embrace of the new generation’s ethos. Hell, I moved to DC with only an air mattress, bike and TV and if that is where I wind up, at least I still have my mind, health and spirit.
PL: If you’ve seen someone get sentenced to thirty years in jail or had a friend or family member diagnosed with terminal cancer or a dangerous chronic illness at a young age, you know – as bad as your problems might be, they’re gold plated. Nothing we’re worried about here is all that important, and that’s one of the things that really pissed me off about people in the career, and myself. That fear the career creates inside you, that feeling that if you fall off the career track just for a second you’re fucked and you’ll cascade through a bottomless doom spiral – believing that horseshit for the years I did was such a pathetic weakness. I should have told a whole lot more of the people I worked for what I was thinking. Fuck it… Water under the bridge. The annoyance of it all brought me to a better place and, I see, you as well.
But I wonder, what’s this doing to so many of the “wind up dolls” who bought into the system and have now been laid off from the only thing they lived for? How do those hopeless fucks stave off suicide?

By: Biggidy

Biggidy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:07:42 +0000

I’m a slack college student in my mid 20’s and I’ve hit a crossroads. I’m starting to realize that a career cubicle, a mortgage, a wife and two kids isn’t what I want out of life. I’m not quite sure what I want, but I know I don’t want to be tied down. I’ve thought about joining the Army reserves to get me out of my rut and add a little excitement, but that’s a crucial decision in times of war. I’m basically freaking out because I’m starting to break away from what I’ve always been told: get a degree and start at the bottom. I just want to be financially comfortable without a degree, I suppose. Any advice?
I would like to say that this post and the comments that ensued have definitely eased my tensions for the time being.
PL: Then don’t get a degree. Find a job that pays what you need and has little stress and puts you in a place you want to be. And think about what you really need to live on. If all you want is to be able to go to the beach, get a low stress job near a beach and live frugally. You’ve heard the story about the fisherman who meets the businessman on vacation. The businessman says he wants to make enough money to retire to a small fishing village where he can fish all day and do nothing but what he wants. The fisherman then tells him, “That’s what I do.” Sure, it’s a dumb old cliche, but it holds. If you want a simple, enjoyable life, it’s within reach. But you’ll have to live with never being “funded through retirement” or having Cadillac-grade health coverage. There are trade offs.